Penny (00:00): This podcast was recorded on Aboriginal land, the land of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nations. This episode also discusses events that occurred on the land of the Dja Dja Wurrung people. We pay our respects to their elders past and present.
Penny (00:23): Welcome back to In Those Days.
Christina (00:34): Thanks Penny.
Penny (00:35): I've got Christina here with me. Now every episode, what we like to do is we have a guest on the show and I do a little bit of research and find some articles in the national library of Australia's archives Trove. And I share it with our guests, but before we start, I would like to talk a little bit about Trove because.
Christina (00:52): You do like to talk about it.
Penny (00:54): I do. I like to share my information with Christina so she can learn something.
Christina (00:58): It's good that I keep learning life long learner.
Penny (01:03): Think I was telling you about how in Trove anyone can make corrections to the text, if there's a mistake, which is really great, but some people can even take it to the next level.
Christina (01:14): Is there a next level from there?
Penny (01:16): Yeah, there is, there's Trove homework. Wow. And that is when the good people at Trove actually set an assignment for all of us Trove heads. They suggest a topic and they set up a search so that it finds articles on those topics that have never been corrected.
Christina (01:32): Oh my gosh. It's like grade three all over again.
Penny (01:33): Again. And then everyone joins in and correct those articles. So like recently at Easter they had one with articles about chocolate. So they just had the word chocolate and articles that had never been corrected. Now, do you want to guess how many articles there are in Trove that mentioned the word chocolate and had never been corrected.
Christina (01:51): 20,000?
Penny (01:51): No, it was over 376,000.
Christina (01:57): How many of those did you work through and correct.
Penny (02:02): I did one. So.
Christina (02:02): Small steps.
Penny (02:02): Exactly. So you know, they're just, it's just chipping away at it very, very slowly. But I think that gives you some idea of like the extent of Trove and how much stuff is in there. Now that we've learned something. Should we go and get our guests for today? Christina, let's do that.
Penny (02:16): Hello. Now here today. We've got Bronwyn Tracey with us. Hi Bronwyn.
Bronwyn (02:29): Hi penny. Hi Christina.
Christina (02:31): Hi Bronwyn.
Penny (02:32): And Bronwyn is my friend from high school.
Christina (02:34): And not a Tangey.
Penny (02:37): And not a Tangey, which is very exciting first for this podcast.
Christina (02:40): But still a T.
Penny (02:42): Not related to me, but I have known her for over 20 years.
Bronwyn (02:44): You are such a teacher Christina.
Christina (02:46): Today's show is brought to you by the letter T.
Penny (02:53): Now Bronwyn is at teacher. And she also studied history at university.
Christina (02:56): Terrible choice and Bronwyn's thesis in her honours was about, well, tell me if I'm getting this wrong. It was about, it was based on the diaries of World War one soldiers. And I'm sure you had a brilliant argument that you were making about that.
Bronwyn (03:15): If, if only I could remember what that was based on the, yes, the diary accounts of field ambulance servicemen, to be specific and how they experienced the war and what you could glean from those records and what you could.
Christina (03:30): Trauma
Christina (03:32): Pretty much. And what proportion of them died? It was kind of high.
Bronwyn (03:37): Out of the six that I wrote about.
Penny (03:38): In the war, I mean.
Bronwyn (03:39): Two of them died there.
Penny (03:42): Yeah, it was so you are very familiar with archives in libraries and you know, your way around them.
Bronwyn (03:48): I did once. I may not now in the, in the digital age.
Penny (03:53): But of course Trove wasn't around then.
Bronwyn (03:56): No, but I did spend time in a, what seemed like a locked dark box somewhere in the state library looking at. Cause that was the only place you were allowed to look at.
Christina (04:07): Was that on microfiche?
Bronwyn (04:07): Yes
Penny (04:08): So she's like done proper research. She's like a proper historian person. I
Christina (04:12): I just used to panic grabbed books for essays at uni and just grab a quote from one, shut it and move on to the next
Bronwyn (04:18): Once I went in there and stayed inside so long. One day that when I came out the whole horizon and sky was brown because it was one of the big, big bushfire seasons. And it had all come over when I was like, oh, the world has ended while I've been inside reading documents that aren't allowed to leave the library. I've come outside. And you know, war has begun
Penny (04:42): That's an idea for a novel though. Like someone's in the library, researching the war and then they come out and the wars.
Bronwyn (04:46): Oh, I'm sure it's a few movies that I've seen.
Christina (04:49): Think Penny's got an idea.
Penny (04:54): So have you used more recently? Have you used Trove much? Have you gone on.
Bronwyn (04:58): I may have here and there for images, particularly when I was working for the education department on their website Fuse. Cause the State Library sometimes produced, educational resources for us to, you know, host within Fuse and
Penny (05:18): Oh, proper work. But what about fun? What about for fun have you used?
Christina (05:22): Oh, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.
Penny (05:24): No, but I mean just in your personal life, just a personal hobby.
Bronwyn (05:28): Oh here and there. I have looked up pictures from Guildford. Which is where I live in north central Victoria, just because I have a general interest in history and local history of particular.
Penny (05:42): Well Bronwyn is from, yeah, a little town called Guildford and it's near the town where I grew up, which is called Newstead and sometimes we pretend it's really only pretended, isn't it Bronwyn, that there's a rivalry between the two.
Bronwyn (05:53): Yes. It was really just between you and I.
Penny (05:56): Yeah. Cause Newstead is clearly better. It is a slight, it's a slightly bigger town.
Christina (06:01): It is always bigger.
Christina (06:03): Guildford's bigger.
Penny (06:04): No Newstead's, bigger than Guildford.
Christina (06:06): I looked up Newstead on Airbnb the other day because that's my idea of, I love, I love looking at suddenly there's only one, only one Airbnb in Newstead. So I'll have to look up Guildford.
Penny (06:20): So obviously I don't use the Airbnb when I go to Newstead, I just stay with dad. So for my search strategy for you looking, having Bronwyn on the podcast, what I did is I looked up Guildford, Bronwyn, your relatives haven't lived in Guildford for a very long time. So Trove really only goes back until the mid 1950. So I, I went back further than that. And so what I searched for was the street where you grew up in the house in Fryers street. And I did find a nice little article from in 1907 and every week they would have like a report in from the districts. And so Guildford, I found one on Guildford's the most exciting things that happened in Guildford in that week. Okay. It was the Mount Alexander Mail and it's from Tuesday 30th of April, 1907 on Wednesday. "Last We again had a runaway horse with a vehicle attached galloping through our streets."
Christina (07:14): Again.
Penny (07:14): Again
Christina (07:18): How many times this year?
Penny (07:21): 1907 was a big year for runaway horses galloping through Guildford.
Christina (07:25): Where as it was heading to?
Penny (07:26): I'm glad you asked Christina. We are going to get to that.
Christina (07:30): Good. I had questions.
Penny (07:34): "The Turnout belonged to Mr Ebery of Yandoit." Now there's still Eberys in the district. Isn't there Bronwyn? I think there's an Ebery living in Newstead anyway.
Bronwyn (07:45): There possibly is, but I have a shocking lack of knowledge, people that live in my area, despite being born there and living there my entire life,
Penny (07:52): The turnout belonged to Mr. Ebery of Yandoit who had been to the railway station with a load of rabbits. I'm sure they were for pets. Christina don't worry, pet rabbit.
Bronwyn (08:02): Guildford Railway Station.
Penny (08:05): Yes now Guildford Railway Station. Where's Guildford Railway Station? I didn't even.
Bronwyn (08:09): So when you come into Guildford from Castlemaine and you go under a bridge. It's just up on the left
Penny (08:17): Ah, is there anything left of it? Is it like an old building?
Bronwyn (08:20): No. it's like a lump of dirt with some sleepers. It's a, quite an odd raised mound of dirt, but that's yeah, it's covered in a lot of overgrown grass at the moment. If you didn't know that it was a railway station, you probably wouldn't
Penny (08:31): You could probably get a shovel and dig around there and find some interesting old.
Christina (08:35): Tickets.
Penny (08:37): They might be gone, but
Bronwyn (08:38): Yes you wouldn't necessarily drive up there and think, ah, there's a railway station.
Penny (08:44): Right. Okay. And there was never a railway station in your lifetime that know.
Bronwyn (08:48): No trains ran, but there was no station.
Penny (08:52): Well in these day it was thriving, this railway station. And you know, what load of rabbits made me think about when I first met Bronwyn, I think I was in year nine or something, or maybe year nine or 10. And one day Bronwyn said something about the chook man. And there was this man, there was a man who used to come around Guildford with a load, with chooks to sell for eating. And she called him, always just called him the chook man. And I said to Bronwyn, oh, that's my uncle. That's my Uncle Bill. And Bronwyn would just flat out would not believe me and just thought I was joking. I could not convince her that the chook man was actually my uncle.
Bronwyn (09:32): And yet now I can picture him standing in the doorway, with a chook. And I think of him, he looks just like your father.
Penny (09:43): Yeah, he does. Okay. But you know, and like dad used to help Uncle Bill with the chooks sometimes as well. But I guess you just didn't see that side of my dad. Cause my dad was like a school principal.
Christina (09:51): Who dabbled in chooks.
Penny (09:51): So I think yeah, it just didn't quite.
Bronwyn (09:56): He was probably hiding out on the road somewhere, staying in the car.
Penny (09:59): So this is Mr. Ebery is the rabbit man. Yes. Of Guildford. Okay. "He had just finished unloading and was engaged in placing a tarpaulin over the crates containing the rabbits when something startled the horse, a young one just recently broken in and it galloped off down the road, leading from the station and up through Templeston Street, when it very nearly caused a smash as it passed within a few inches of Mr. C Smith who was driving along the road in a buggy and was unaware of the approach of the runaway that was coming along behind it to his attention was attracted by some eyewitnesses who lustily called"
Christina (10:34): Lustily
Penny (10:36): Yes, lustily. "And Warned him of his danger"
Christina (10:39): I would suggest it's pretty obvious what caused this spook. I have never seen a horse be a calm individual around a tarpaulin. And just a bit of a general bit of feedback. If you're flapping your tarpaulin, that horse is not going to stand there.
Penny (10:53): This is the thing that I would never know about horses.
Christina (10:57): No, if you've got a tarpaulin that's flying around, forget about your horse standing still.
Penny (11:02): I feel like we've solved a 110 year old mystery here of what started the whole thing
Christina (11:04): Why are we, why are we having this conundrum? Clearly the tarpaulin is the issue.
Penny (11:14): And I would just like to point out that, that sentence that I just read out where I was getting,
Christina (11:18): I felt there was no punctuation.
Penny (11:23): It's 103 words. 103 words in one sentence. So obviously in the old, in the olden days, I had sort of bit of lung capacity and a longer attention spans so they could keep reading.
Christina (11:31): Well there's no TV or phones to check.
Penny (11:33): And no commas.
Penny (11:36): Okay. Now this is where we get very relevant. "He Just had time to swerve his horse, a few inches. When the other trap dashed past it then turned down Fryers street." Fryers Street - that's Bronwyn's street. "And Ran over some bed logs of the town pump, which were lying alongside the road, the pump having been recently dismantled. This caused the trap to capsize, throwing the contents out onto the road." So now we've got to imagine dead rabbits, everywhere dead rabbits everywhere. Or alive, rabbits hopping around.
Christina (12:10): On the way to the show.
Penny (12:12): They haven't clarified. "The horse then continued on its mad career, dragging the trap along on its side, until it reached the railing on the side of the culvert, near the Big Tree in Fryers Street into which it bumped." Now Bronwyn understands now why I'm reading out this article, because it mentions the Big Tree, which is one of my favorite things in the, in the whole district. I'm a bit obsessed with the Big Tree. Now, Christina, have you ever visited the Big Tree?
Christina (12:41): I have not visited the Big Tree Penny.
Penny (12:44): And Bronwyn would you like to tell Christina what the Big Tree is?
Bronwyn (12:47): The Big Tree is a very big tree.
Christina (12:51): Excellent.
Bronwyn (12:52): In Guildford and quite possibly the most or only notable thing about it.
Christina (12:57): Okay. What sort of tree is it?
Bronwyn (13:00): Oh, it's a river red gum. I believe.
Penny (13:03): That's my understanding.
Bronwyn (13:04): And well, especially if you grow up there, like there is, it's just, you know, you are imbued with the state of the Big Tree. Like there is an, I've got a few photos that I brought today, which is useless in a um.
Penny (13:19): But we can look at them.
Bronwyn (13:22): In an audio. But yes, I can show you.
Penny (13:24): Well, it is the number. It's definitely the number one tourist attraction in Guildford.
Christina (13:27): And I like that you didn't have to build it either. Like it's there it's not like the Big Ram or the Big Pineapple or anything. It's just,
Penny (13:35): It is. Yeah, it is massive. Like when you see it, it's a genuinely impressive tree, like when you stand next to it, like it's, it's, it's huge. And there's also, and this used to confuse me. There is also a Big Tree Park. Now would you think that the Big Tree would be in the Big Tree Park?
Christina (13:53): I would have thought so.
Penny (13:53): It's not. It's across the road.
Speaking 2 (13:57): Well perhaps owing to the success of the Big Tree itself. They wanted another tourist attraction.
Bronwyn (14:02): It is named for.
Penny (14:04): Yeah. Because when you stand in it, you can see the Big Tree. Yeah. And I, yeah,
Bronwyn (14:09): When you stand in it the magpies that live in the top of the Big Tree come and swoop you in Big Tree Park. It's a sort of relationship.
Christina (14:16): Oh, I guess like if you visit like Dolly World, like Dolly Parton's World, you wouldn't expect that she's there.
Penny (14:21): Similar. That's correct.
Bronwyn (14:21): If only I'd had this twenty-five years ago.
Penny (14:31): When I would not stop going on about it. And yes, exactly. And, and, and it's very similar because the role that the Big Tree plays in Guildford's economy is very similar to Dollywood in Tennessee.
Christina (14:43): And she is actually, I just found this out recently. She does a lot of charity work. She just doesn't, doesn't really say much about it, but she just quietly, gets on with things.
Penny (14:54): Amazing lady. And of course she did. She donated that money to the vaccine as well developed.
Christina (14:58): We could all learn a lot from Dolly.
Penny (15:00): She's, Ah, I can't, I love her so much. Anyway.
Bronwyn (15:03): The Big Tree does nothing for charity, but it does
Christina (15:06): Quietly. Yeah. Just.
Penny (15:08): Doesn't have to.
Bronwyn (15:10): Just quietly does its thing.
Christina (15:10): It's what it symbolizes.
Penny (15:12): But it is somewhere between apparently 500 and a thousand years old. And I've had a bit of there's a bit of uncertainty about the girth of the tree. Because on Wikipedia it said it's got a height of 34 meters and it's circumference is 9.35 meters. Girth is circumference isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's a whole way round. And then in the Sydney Morning Herald, I found an article that said the girth at the base was 12.8 meters, which is significantly more.
Bronwyn (15:46): Yes I have that here on a book that I have provided, which is a local history of Guildford.
Penny (15:50): Oh my God. I was hoping Bronwyn would provide clarity on this issue, but
Bronwyn (15:54): But. No. Well just wait. Written on the back, the piece to me, my father's handwriting, right. With no actual reference to the Big Tree, it says 12.8 meter girth. Yep.
Penny (16:07): And I mean, what else would he be talking about.
Bronwyn (16:07): 26 meter tall.
Christina (16:10): Look, look at surely keeps growing. So wouldn't it be a constantly evolving girth.
Penny (16:17): Well, I think it slowed down. I think, I think it has done.
Bronwyn (16:20): Perhaps if it's 1000 years old.
Christina (16:20): Post Christmas it's a bit more.
Penny (16:24): So Bronwyn, what is this pamphlet on Guildford that you've brought?
Bronwyn (16:28): This appears to have been written. It says at the back Guildford today, 1988. So no doubt. It was written for.
Christina (16:35): Our bicentennial.
Bronwyn (16:35): The bicentennial which was a big event in Guildford and did involve a parade down to the Big Tree and back.
Penny (16:42): As do most of events in Guildford.
Christina (16:46): Yeah. Let's all go to the Big Tree.
Bronwyn (16:48): But I am wondering why the measurements of the Big Tree, if indeed, that is what they are written in my father's handwriting on the back of the book, whether they're actually in the book or not, there are other,
Penny (16:58): Are there pictures? Can you show Bronwyn, is there a picture of the Big Tree just to show the front cover there is
Christina (17:02): The problem with that picture though is that you're not getting the context. There's a recent photo of Bronwyn at the Big Tree. I'm just going on to Facebook where Bronwyn posted a photo.
Christina (17:11): That is huge.
Penny (17:15): Huge, I mean, you can see Bronwyn there has prostrated herself on a on a knob.
Christina (17:18): It's sacrificial.
Bronwyn (17:18): The knob.
Penny (17:18): The knob of the, of the Big Tree and like, she can curve herself around the knob and then there's just still heaps of tree left.
Christina (17:28): Yeah. It's really disturbing visuals there.
Bronwyn (17:29): So if I was as athletic as I once was, what you do at the knob is you climb and sit on top of the knob,
Christina (17:37): How times have changed.
Bronwyn (17:38): Well Yes.
Penny (17:39): Well we're nearly in our forties now.
Penny (17:40): There'll be no climbing on top of knobs.
Bronwyn (17:43): So now we just embrace the knob.
Christina (17:45): In whatever way feels right. And what your body allows.
Penny (17:52): So I'll, I'll, I'll go back. I'll just finish this this, because I'm sure you're on, it's the horse it's on, it's on the run. It's heading toward it's bumped into the Big Tree.
Christina (18:01): It didn't see it.
Penny (18:03): It cannot have been comfortable.
Christina (18:04): Must have had its blinkers on.
Penny (18:07): "It then went on a few yards further and turned in a circle when it seemed to have had enough of this kind of prank and stood quietly until it was caught. Strange to say, after all the bumping and knocking about the turnout got, but very little damage was done. Only the splashboard and some of the iron work on the side of the vehicle being broken."
Christina (18:29): I really needed to know that detail. I was concerned.
Penny (18:31): Exactly. So basically a horse.
Christina (18:35): Shat itself.
Penny (18:35): Was loose for a while. Didn't no one got hurt and there wasn't much damage done. There might be rabbits everywhere.
Christina (18:43): No time for punctuation.
Penny (18:45): That's it. And of course after I found this, so I got you know, cause any excuse to be looking up the Big Tree, I will take it. So I'm looking in Trove, I'm searching Big Tree Guildford. It's a little bit tricky cause there's other, Guildford's in Australia and there's other trees as well. People talk about them and they're not relevant to me, but so this, this is a problem. But then I, I did sort of manage, you know, narrowing it down by, by the newspapers, which you can do and all that sort of thing. And I've actually found that people didn't really refer to the Big Tree very much at all. And, and that surprised me cause in that article, you know, it was called 'the Big Tree' and that was in 1907, but it didn't really get talked about that much. So do you know when it's and I wondered if maybe, well, probably initially there were probably a lot of other big trees that unfortunately they cut down. So do you know, but all your life, it was at the Big Tree, right?
Bronwyn (19:38): It's been notable all my life. Yes. It's how you had a sign nearby, you know, describing it and it, well, actually I think it used to inaccurately describe its history, but it's probably been changed now, but now there is a, like a wooden fence around it, if you like or. Not, not to stop you getting in there.
Penny (19:59): Because that would be.
Bronwyn (20:00): But that, I don't believe that was there.
Penny (20:02): Against the religion of Guildfordians.
Penny (20:03): When I was a kid.
Christina (20:05): Do you think that's rivalry from, with Newstead and Guildford is such that you could have a rebel faction from Newstead come over with chainsaws and attack the Big Tree?
Penny (20:15): Well, that is it. There's two things that are interesting there, Christina, because there's the Guildford tree has not always been safe. I'm going to get to that. And we're going to talk about the threats to the Big Tree that it's experienced. I'm hoping Bronwyn might even have more to tell me about that. But second thing is yes, there are a lot of claims of bigger trees in the district there's a lot of rumors.
Bronwyn (20:40): Yes that is part of our rivalry.
Penny (20:41): Yes And you will hear someone say so and so's got, and I've even gone to check out some of these.
Christina (20:47): Did you take a measuring tape? For the girth.
Penny (20:51): Well, to be honest, we may have had a measuring tape, but then I remember one, we got, just got out there. We had to drive a half an hour, get out there, we hear this old, farmer's got this massive tree oh he reckons, it might be bigger than the Big Tree. And I just got there and I just went
Christina (21:03): It's bonsai mate. It's A bonsai.
Penny (21:06): That's exactly right. And I was just like, oh.
Christina (21:09): When you get to a certain height with trees, do you work out the height with like a weird Pythagoras thing?
Penny (21:14): Yeah. I reckon someone stands back and measures an angle and yeah.
Christina (21:21): It'd be a maths problem.
Penny (21:22): You're not actually getting a big tape measure and
Christina (21:26): No. Scaling it with a tape.
Penny (21:29): Exactly, you're not getting you know, like a little, little like a grade two to climb up to the top and 'Drop down a string mate!' No, that's not it.
Bronwyn (21:36): Funny you should mention that I was going to say measurement of the Big Tree can be done in numerous ways and measuring it's girth using children was a common.
Penny (21:47): So how many kids can go around the Big Tree holding hands?
Bronwyn (21:50): I can't remember that. But I know at least a couple of times we're involved in, you know, going down as a school and.
Penny (21:56): Girthing the tree.
Bronwyn (21:56): Seeing how many, how many children holding hands fit around the base of the Big Tree. But yeah. So it's not such a stretch to think that you could send a child.
Christina (22:05): You'd want the young ones in there wouldn't you to just get the maximum number.
Bronwyn (22:09): There's the knob there to help you climb onto that first. And then from there, who knows how far you can go?
Penny (22:15): Yeah. Well I'm, I'm scared of heights. So I obviously it's not for me, but one of my children.
Christina (22:18): You'd just be a hand holder at the bottom.
Penny (22:19): I'd send up a child. Absolutely. anyway, so again, no, but people, yeah. It's something that people like to talk about. Is there a bigger tree than the Big Tree? And I used to be interested in it, but these days I'm just like the answer's no guys just stop.
Christina (22:34): Yep.
Penny (22:34): It's the biggest tree in the district. Just move on.
Christina (22:38): It's like the enchanted tree. Is it the, no what's that tree?
Penny (22:42): The Magic Faraway Tree?
Christina (22:43): Imagine if it was that.
Penny (22:47): Exactly. Does it take you places Bronwyn. If you sit on the knob?
Christina (22:50): Is there a slide inside that you come out of on a cushion and a squirrel takes the cushion back.
Penny (22:54): You go to candy land or something.
Christina (22:56): Was Dame Wash-a-lot there?
Bronwyn (22:59): Mostly you just obtain a sense of achievement from having gone on the knob in the first place. And that's pretty much all you can get.
Penny (23:04): Yeah. You get on the knob you get off. You might go to the general store.
Bronwyn (23:09): Down to the river.
Christina (23:11): To contemplate that time.
Penny (23:12): To the pub. That's pretty much it. So. This is getting into the controversy about, you know, people may be damaging or destroying the tree. This is from the Mount Alexander Mail from the 6th of January, 1897. So this is a few years before the first article I read and I've just got a very tiny little snippet to read for you. It says, "From Geo Tullo" I think Geo is short for George.
Bronwyn (23:38): I think so.
Penny (23:39): I had to look that up. So obvious to you, but. "From Geo Tullo and five others requesting the council to cause that the large tree at the intersection of Fryers and Ballarat street in Guildford to be lopped off at a certain height, petitioned to lie on the table for five months." So.
Bronwyn (24:03): I had no idea such threats had existed.
Penny (24:06): Yes so these Tullo people were wanting to lop the Big Tree. Now are there still Tullos in the district? You wouldn't probably know.
Bronwyn (24:16): There probably are.
Christina (24:19): That have been run out of town,
Bronwyn (24:21): There's several historians living in Guildford that, that if they ever listened to this, they will be going, of course Bronwyn, of course there are.
Christina (24:26): There's Jack Tullo. There's Bill Tullo. There's his cousin Margie.
Penny (24:35): But so that, that, you know, had me worried. I mean, I shouldn't have really been worried cause it's like, when you're reading one of those like exciting autobiographies where, you know, is the person going to die in the fire? And it's like, well, no, because they're, they wrote, they wrote it, you know.
Christina (24:50): That's true.
Penny (24:52): We know that the Big Tree survived. But it did worry me. And so I kept searching and then, and I managed to find the follow-up from it. So this is from the Mount Alexander Mail from the 3rd of February, 1897. So it didn't actually lie on the table for a whole month. Obviously they just decided that it was bullshit and decided to get on with it. But no, I shouldn't, I shouldn't spoil it, but I'll read what happens. "The Petition from John Tullo and others to have a tree in the Guildford reserve cut down or lopped as it was a source of danger was also considered the matter was left to the engineer to deal with. Now, I don't know who that engineer was.
Christina (25:31): He does not need a name.
Penny (25:32): But he was the hero of Guildford. And cause he obviously decided don't be stupid, we're not lopping cutting down the Big Tree. But I wasn't able to find out who that person, who that hero was, but it'd be good if someone could and maybe a little,
Bronwyn (25:47): I would also like to know at what height, these Tulllos deemed it safe. Well, I'd only want it lopped to a certain height.
Penny (25:55): Well, exactly. Who knows. And why, why is it dangerous if it's tall but not, I don't know.
Christina (26:01): Very weird.
Penny (26:02): I did because I was searching Guildford trees. I did find a number of articles about lopping. Like they would just constantly lopping and cutting down trees that they considered dangerous. It was just what you did. But in your lifetime Bronwyn, have there been threats to the Big Tree.
Bronwyn (26:18): Yes. There was once talk of a road, I believe a different road coming down. That would, yes. That would come too close or threaten it in some way. Again, apologies Guildfordians. Don't shout at me when you see me down the street for not remembering this accurately, but not for a long time. Has there been, I think now it's just accepted that it, you know, it's, it's a sacred place.
Penny (26:47): So that, so I Remember Miranda, our housemate, who we lived with, we went to school with her as well. She used to talk about remembering, oh, going to a protest to save the Big Tree. So that would.
Bronwyn (26:58): I would, I would think that is what that refers to.
Penny (27:01): So they weren't actually ever planning to cut it down, but the road was maybe going to go a bit close.
Bronwyn (27:05): I think so maybe they were going to maybe they were going to have to lop some of it to make it safer.
Penny (27:11): We don't like lopping.
Christina (27:13): No lopping here.
Penny (27:15): I did hear that recently there was a storm like in recent years, the Big Tree lost a lot of branches.
Bronwyn (27:20): Yeah, no it did. Yes. And I think periodically it's, you know, it's likely assessed for safety and.
Penny (27:25): Yeah, you wouldn't camp under it.
Bronwyn (27:27): It has branches lopped, but you know, not, not to reduce its height.
Penny (27:33): And you can't affect the girth.
Christina (27:34): No.
Bronwyn (27:34): No.
Penny (27:37): There's nothing you can do to affect the girth. So the Guildford Primary School Bronwyn. You showed us a picture of that. And I noticed that the Big Tree's actually featured on the primary school uniform.
Bronwyn (27:46): Most certainly. So I have a picture of me in grade prep and me in grade five wearing the lovely, bright yellow uniform.
Penny (27:56): So safe. That is so safe. And I had something else I wanted to say about Guildford Primary School. Because I remember hearing that Cling Wrap was banned.
Bronwyn (28:04): That sounds very before its time.
Penny (28:07): Exactly.
Christina (28:09): Nude Food Day.
Penny (28:10): Exactly. And I teased them and Miranda and I was like, oh, it's so funny that Cling Wrap was banned at your school. Right. And this is like, you know, twenty years ago.
Christina (28:17): And look at you now.
Penny (28:17): And now what am I doing with my bento boxes every morning?
Christina (28:22): What are you doing Penny with your bento boxes.
Penny (28:25): Putting all the strawberries in the different compartments. Hoping it doesn't all get mushed up together.
Bronwyn (28:28): But did she tell you why the Cling Wrap was banned?
Penny (28:30): Yes, because it was going into the paddock next door and the cows were eating it.
Bronwyn (28:33): Correct.
Christina (28:35): And that's just.
Christina (28:35): So everyone had to take muslin wraps.
Penny (28:40): Yes. So Guildford is a very progressive place.
Christina (28:42): Just not with their windcheater designs for the primary school.
Penny (28:45): Actually. Well, that's a beautiful.
Bronwyn (28:46): I quite liked it and even today.
Christina (28:49): Yellow's risky.
Penny (28:51): It doesn't work with all skin tones.
Christina (28:52): No, it's polarizing,
Bronwyn (28:55): Especially in this photo here, like there's a definite yellow.
Christina (28:57): Yellow. You've definitely transitioned to the side pony really well.
Bronwyn (29:02): Well I never did my own hair. My mother did that and she will have chosen the yellow ribbon to go in and the clothes I'm wearing. Right now, it's now
Penny (29:09): Get those kids around that tree.
Christina (29:12): Holding hands.
Penny (29:13): They will have enough won't they?
Bronwyn (29:14): No, they will not.
Penny (29:18): Will not. They're not gonna.
Bronwyn (29:19): Not in this first year, perhaps in future years. They might, but no, they will not have it.
Christina (29:24): Where are those kids going to primary school at the moment?
Bronwyn (29:26): They are well, Guildford primary school is an annex of nearby Campbells Creek. So they are actually going to be the Guildford campus of Campbells Creek. That's what happened to Guildford the year after I left actually.
Penny (29:38): We're hoping that one day that Guildford is going to become the campus of Newstead. That's our aim.
Bronwyn (29:46): Like we hope that New Zealand will bcome to campus of Australia.
Penny (29:47): Oh God. I'm happy to go the other way at the moment to be honest.
Penny (29:52): I've got, so I was a little bit disappointed that obviously referring to the Big Tree as the Big Tree and like if, if there was a newspaper now most of the articles from Guildford would be about the Big Tree, but obviously back in these days, I don't know if people were spoiled for trees or whatever but hey didn't talk about it that much. But I did find one other article on Guildford that I thought I'd like to share with you just because it's very, very it's. Yeah. It's very early in the, in the township, the history of the township of Guildford. And it's from the Mount Alexander Mail and it's from the 10th of September, 1858. And it's called 'A Pedestrian Trip to Ballarat'. And it's about this person, I'm assuming it's a bloke, and he needed to go to Ballarat and he decided to walk. And so he's walking from Castlemaine to Ballarat. As you do.
Christina (30:39): How long does it take to drive that distance?
Penny (30:42): Oh how far is it from Castlemaine to Ballarat?
Bronwyn (30:43): Well from Guildford to Ballarat is 45 minutes to an hour. About 60 kilometers.
Christina (30:48): Not a solid choice he's making.
Bronwyn (30:51): Let's say 70 to 75 kilometers, depending on which way you're going. Who knows? You probably could have walked a more direct route back then now. Yeah. Now you're confined to the roads. You may not cross paddocks.
Christina (31:02): Yeah. Not jumping in the paddocks.
Penny (31:05): I'm going to look up Guildford to Ballarat just to see how far it is. It's 70 kilometers.
Christina (31:10): Gosh you're accurate.
Bronwyn (31:12): Yes I am. Except I said it was 60.
Christina (31:15): I thought you said 70, 75. We'll stick to that.
Bronwyn (31:16): From Castlemaine.
Penny (31:19): No, no, no. Sorry. Yeah, no Castlemaine was, yeah, we'll do the full distance. 82, 83. It depends yep.
Christina (31:27): Don't need Google maps, just take Bronwyn.
Penny (31:28): Exactly. If I was going to. There's no one I'd rather walk from Castlemaine to Ballarat with.
Christina (31:35): I'll sponsor you.
Penny (31:39): "A Pedestrian trip to Ballarat. Leaving Castlemaine about 9:00 AM" I reckon he should have started earlier, anyway. "And Taking a southwesterly direction down Campbell's Creek to where that stream falls into the river Loddon. A distance of about eight miles. I found myself at Guildford, the township, which is approached by a substantial wood bridge, crossing the Loddon and extending about a hundred yards in length at an elevation of some 50 feet above the usual watermark, is very pleasantly situated and has all the appearances of a neat English country village". Because that's what they were doing back in those days. They were coming to a new country and going a new place and just going, let's try and make this look like the old place.
Christina (32:24): Get the rabbits over here.
Penny (32:26): Let's just wreck it. "The Banks of the river for miles, both above and below the township are studded with well cultivated forms of various sizes, some of which are extensive." So at this point it feels like he is enjoying, he's looking at Guildford and he is saying good. "It Is generally suppose that at some future date Guildford will be a very important agricultural town. Most of the ground in the district being well adapted for the art of husbandry and tillage". Uh,just basically wrecking the place again. "At Present, however, it has a very dull and inanimate appearance and is minus both private and public buildings or institutions worthy of any remark, the bridge before alluded to being the only work in the neighborhood to attract the stranger's attention."
Christina (33:19): Wow. He's a Debbie downer isn't he.
Penny (33:21): He built it up and then he just slagged it off.
Bronwyn (33:24): 1858.
Penny (33:24): 1858.
Speaking 2 (33:26): He didn't notice the Big Tree.
Penny (33:29): No, he doesn't mention it and he's on the way to Ballarat so he should be walking straight past it. So I don't a hundred percent trust this dude. And he says "Having refreshed the outward man at the only hotel the place can boast of".
Bronwyn (33:43): Harsh.
Penny (33:43): Still only one pub. Still only got one.
Bronwyn (33:45): Yes it has has got one.
Christina (33:47): It's a one pub town.
Penny (33:47): "I Proceeded on my march and to prevent the chance of being lost in the bush, directed my footsteps by the line of telegraph, which is fast approaching completion between Castlemaine and my journey's destination." And then he goes on to walk to Ballarat and be quite frankly extremely racist along the way. Because he made some Chinese people and it's just, but what, the other thing that I found a little bit funny about this article, it's in the Mount Alexander Mail and so underneath this article, so this is a article that runs for a couple of columns it's quite long. And then underneath, there's an article called 'The Ballarat Murder''. So we've got 'man goes for a walk' and then we've got murder, which is "The body of a murdered man was found lying with his head against the shed.:
Christina (34:37): Oh God.
Penny (34:38): "And The feet in the water hole." And carries on in quite a grizzly description. So, but I do quite like the fact that
Christina (34:46): Was that him that was murdered?
Penny (34:48): The man, no, no. It's a different.
Christina (34:49): Disappointing. Maybe it was a threat.
Penny (34:51): It's a different guy, but I just liked the fact that those two things are sort of put on the same level. But I thought it was interesting to go back and look at your Guildford and who knows what he would have made a new set at the same time. He probably would have walked through and gone, oh, that was a shithole.
Christina (35:04): But how many pubs did Newstead have?
Penny (35:06): Well, we know it it's at its height it had three, but I don't know in 1858, that is quite early.
Bronwyn (35:14): Yeah. Well I was just checking here on my bicentennial Guildford history that I was wondering why he thought it so dull. And that was clearly because it was after the the period of the Gold Rush where Guildford in fact had many, many pubs.
Penny (35:31): Really?
Bronwyn (35:31): And thousands of people living there, including I believe the greatest number of Chinese miners to congregate in one area.
Christina (35:41): So hang on. So when was this.
Christina (35:42): When was the Gold Rush? Is that what you're asking?
Penny (35:45): That's what I'm asking.
Christina (35:46): I'll ask it. Cause you're supposed to be the smarter person.
Bronwyn (35:52): This book is vague for my liking, but it says the first settlers moved in, white settlers, the 1840s and early 1850s when the population was comprised of hundreds of gold fossickers. In the vicinity of Guildford, Vaughn and Fryer's Creek. So obviously and then it goes on to say that population figures at that time were not known, but when the borough of Guildford was proclaimed in 1866, there were 250 rate payers. So we have gone quite well down.
Christina (36:22): How many rate payers now?
Bronwyn (36:23): Ah, probably not a great deal more than 250. I've got to say in the 300s perhaps.
Penny (36:27): That's how many people live in Guildford now?
Christina (36:30): We've, we've maintained since 1866.
Christina (36:34): With a big peak in the middle.
Bronwyn (36:37): But yeah, apparently there were great many pubs. Way more than Newstead's three. There were like 30 pubs I think in Guildford at one point.
Christina (36:40): You could do a pub crawl in Guildford.
Penny (36:42): So it's, it's quite weird. He must have gone in, in like a lull period.
Bronwyn (36:47): Yeah. Perhaps the, you know, the, the great surge had already ended. All the gold had seemingly been found and they'd already vacated.
Penny (36:55): And they hadn't built any buildings.
Christina (36:57): There were buildings. It says there was a.
Penny (36:59): He reckons there's only a bridge.
Bronwyn (37:01): Oh, I was just reading this and it says there was a candle factory and a soap maker established in 1855 and 1857. So this man should have possibly seen that.
Christina (37:11): Bought some candles and soap.
Penny (37:12): Maybe it was from Newstead or something just
Bronwyn (37:16): And he just inherently had an issue with Guildford.
Penny (37:21): I really want to read that book now.
Bronwyn (37:22): And the school was opened in 1858, but not until later in 1858.
Penny (37:29): Okay So I did find, and I, and I chose not to read them because I, I felt that they were a bit negative. There was a lot of problems with the septic issues, sewage in Guildford.
Christina (37:41): Fantastic.
Penny (37:46): Yeah. And apparently, well, I think I'm going off memory now, if I read a few articles, there was a bit of an issue where I think Guildfordians had a system of holes. And it was felt that they weren't working very well. And then a new system was brought in, but then the people of Guildford were not using it properly.
Bronwyn (38:04): Uh we were slow.
Penny (38:06): And not, and then everyone was like, can't we just go back to the holes?
Bronwyn (38:08): Oh, we were stuck in our ways.
Christina (38:11): Let's not move forward. Let's go back to the holes.
Bronwyn (38:13): Well, look our population hasn't grown a great deal.
Penny (38:20): So yeah, thanks for bringing those Bronwyn. And I, I really want to read that book on Guildford now.
Bronwyn (38:23): I'm sure there are more up to date histories that have been written since 1988.
Christina (38:27): I think you need to start compiling a more recent history.
Penny (38:31): Yeah. You could easily become one of Guildford's historians with your background.
Bronwyn (38:35): I once got to transcribe the works of another local historian who has now passed away, but he was the keeper of much of the information. I believe he, I believe he contributed a lot of information to this book. But yes, at one point my father managed to get me a brief job of transcribing some of his documents back in my, you know, eager history student days.
Penny (39:00): He'd know all about that time the horse escaped.
Christina (39:02): Oh, he probably know what colour the horse was. When it had last been shod. All of that.
Bronwyn (39:11): I was going to say in only a few years ago, there were horses on the run.
Christina (39:16): On the trot.
Bronwyn (39:20): Literally horses escape from their paddock. But you know, they, they caused quite the stir.
Penny (39:24): I didn't, I didn't see it on the news.
Bronwyn (39:26): Of course. Now there are cars for them to um.
Christina (39:29): Probably made the local Facebook page.
Penny (39:31): Exactly. Is there a local Facebook page.
Bronwyn (39:35): There most certainly is a Guildford Facebook group.
Penny (39:38): Yeah. Thank you so much Bronwyn for coming and talking to us about Guildford and my very favorite topic, the Big Tree. It's been years since I've got to
Christina (39:44): I think I need to get in a car and go and look at it.
Penny (39:46): You won't be disappointed.
Christina (39:47): No, I feel I won't.
Penny (39:49): It's like the Grand Canyon, you know? Cause you hype it up in your worry or will it really seem big when I say it.
Bronwyn (39:55): You will think, oh, well the, the, the probably hours that Penny and Bronwyn spent needlessly arguing Newstead versus Guildford and the importance of the Big Tree or not, they were well spent.
Penny (40:05): They were well spent. Yes, definitely.
Christina (40:07): Alright. I'm looking forward to seeing the Big Tree.
Bronwyn (40:11): I should probably say thank you for having, where should we pause and I should say, thank you for having me or something.
Christina (40:17): Yes you be grateful Bronwyn. You be grateful.
Penny (40:17): Driving all this way. Lucky lass. She doesn't even have a hot drink. I didn't even make her hot drink anyway. I'll give you, I'll give you an opportunity. Thanks for coming Bronwyn.
Bronwyn (40:34): Thank you for having me, Penny and Christina.
Christina (40:35): Thanks Bronwyn.